The current Catholic pope made his mark a few decades ago by reeling in South American liberation theologians through the threat of excommunication. The following makes it evident old habits die hard.
From Tikkun
This has come into particular highlight this very week, because the Inquisition office (now renamed the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith) has sent a letter to Father Roy Bourgeois threatening him with ex-communication (which effectively means an end to his income and to his teachings inside the church) for daring to publicly support the ordination of women and to offer remarks in a ceremony ordaining a woman as priest.
Roy Bourgeois isn't just any priest. He is, along with John Dear and Sister Joan Chittister, one of the most courageous Catholic voices for peace and non-violence and the founder and leader of the School of the Americas Watch (SOAW). The ultimatum and ex-communication would be effective the day before the annual demonstration of the SOAW at Fort Bennings where the School of the Americas is housed and where it trains South and Central American police forces in the techniques of torture, repression, and counter-insurgency. We at the Network of Spiritual Progressives have been calling for support for this demonstration which begins on Friday and goes till Sunday (if you happen to be coming to the demonstration and would help us distribute information or sit at our table to help us get the word out about our Global Marshall Plan campaign, please let us know by email).
So the Inquisition will now in one fell swoop be able to rid itself of the progressive Catholic who has created the most important spiritual progressive demonstration taking place anywhere in the country for peace and against torture, and simultaneously terrify other priests into not daring to question the Church's doctrines of women. It should be noted that the very progressive teachings of the Church against war and poverty have not served as a basis for the excommunication of any priest or other church officials who have publicly supported the US war in Iraq or Afghanistan or supported the notion of a violent war against terror. The Inquisition answers to no one,and so its arbitrary power is used against those who support progressive causes, but not against those who support authoritarian and reactionary and violent causes.
We urge all those who feel strongly opposed to this attempt to silence dissent within the Church and to oust its most celebrated peace-priest to take the following steps:
1. Write to the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith at the Vatican, Rome, Italy and protest.
2. Write to your local newspapers and protest.
3. Write to your local Catholic church and priests and protest.
4. Write to the National Catholic Reporter, Commonweal, and to national news sources like the NY Times and Washington Post and CNN and NPR and let them know that the NSP is protesting this move against Father Bourgeois and re-affirming our commitment to equal rights for women plus our commitment to strengthen the demonstrations in Fort Benning until the training of this sort is stopped and made illegal in the U.S.
Catholic priest faces excommunication
In August, Father Bourgeois joined a ceremony in a Unitarian Universalist church in Lexington, Ky., in which a friend from the peace movement, Janice Sevre-Duszynska, claimed ordination as a Roman Catholic priest. Father Bourgeois gave the homily and laid hands on her.
He had known that excommunication was possible but said he thought it unlikely. His order summoned him to headquarters and gave him a warning but did not discipline him.
Then he received a letter dated Oct. 21 from the Vatican’s doctrinal watchdog, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, warning that if he did not recant, in writing, he would be excommunicated within 30 days.
“When I got the actual letter, I had to sit down,” he said. “I felt nauseous. I thought, this is serious stuff. The first thought that came to mind was, How am I going to explain this to my dad and my family?”
After weeks of prayer, Father Bourgeois informed the Vatican that he would not repent.
Roy Bourgeois threatened with excommunication
Maryknoll Fr. Roy Bourgeois, founder of SOA Watch, outside a congressional office building in Washington in 2007 (CNS photo/Paul Haring)Maryknoll Fr. Roy Bourgeois has been threatened with excommunication by the Vatican's Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith for his support of women’s ordination, according to a letter made public today.
The letter was written by Bourgeois and addressed to the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith. It was distributed via e-mail by Bill Quigley, a New Orleans lawyer who represents Bourgeois.
According to Bourgeois’ letter, which is dated Nov. 7, the congregation has given him 30 days to recant his “belief and public statements that support the ordination of women in our Church, or (he) will be excommunicated.”
The letter indicates that Bourgeois received notification from the congregation Oct. 21.
Bourgeois, a priest for 36 years, attended the ordination of Janice Sevre-Duszynska in Lexingon, Ky., Aug. 9 and preached a homily.
If Bourgeois is excommunicated at the end of 30 days, it would come just before the mass rally and protest against the U.S. Army’s School of the Americas at Fort Benning, Ga., that Bourgeois has organized for 19 years. In recent years, more than 15,000 people, many of them Catholic university students, have joined the three daylong rally and demonstration.
Bourgeois was not immediately available for comment. The text of Bourgeois’ letter follows.
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Rev. Roy Bourgeois, M.M.
PO Box 3330, Columbus, GA 31903
November 7, 2008
TO THE CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH, THE VATICAN
I was very saddened by your letter dated October 21, 2008, giving me 30 days to recant my belief and public statements that support the ordination of women in our Church, or I will be excommunicated.
I have been a Catholic priest for 36 years and have a deep love for my Church and ministry.
When I was a young man in the military, I felt God was calling me to the priesthood. I entered Maryknoll and was ordained in 1972.
Over the years I have met a number of women in our Church who, like me, feel called by God to the priesthood. You, our Church leaders at the Vatican, tell us that women cannot be ordained.
With all due respect, I believe our Catholic Church’s teaching on this issue is wrong and does not stand up to scrutiny. A 1976 report by the Pontifical Biblical Commission supports the research of Scripture scholars, canon lawyers and many faithful Catholics who have studied and pondered the Scriptures and have concluded that there is no justification in the Bible for excluding women from the priesthood.
As people of faith, we profess that the invitation to the ministry of priesthood comes from God. We profess that God is the Source of life and created men and women of equal stature and dignity. The current Catholic Church doctrine on the ordination of women implies our loving and all-powerful God, Creator of heaven and earth, somehow cannot empower a woman to be a priest.
Women in our Church are telling us that God is calling them to the priesthood. Who are we, as men, to say to women, “Our call is valid, but yours is not.” Who are we to tamper with God’s call?
Sexism, like racism, is a sin. And no matter how hard or how long we may try to justify discrimination, in the end, it is always immoral.
Hundreds of Catholic churches in the U.S. are closing because of a shortage of priests. Yet there are hundreds of committed and prophetic women telling us that God is calling them to serve our Church as priests.
If we are to have a vibrant, healthy Church rooted in the teachings of our Savior, we need the faith, wisdom, experience, compassion and courage of women in the priesthood.
Conscience is very sacred. Conscience gives us a sense of right and wrong and urges us to do the right thing. Conscience is what compelled Franz Jagerstatter, a humble Austrian farmer, husband and father of four young children, to refuse to join Hitler’s army, which led to his execution. Conscience is what compelled Rosa Parks to say she could no longer sit in the back of the bus. Conscience is what compels women in our Church to say they cannot be silent and deny their call from God to the priesthood. Conscience is what compelled my dear mother and father, now 95, to always strive to do the right things as faithful Catholics raising four children. And after much prayer, reflection and discernment, it is my conscience that compels me to do the right thing. I cannot recant my belief and public statements that support the ordination of women in our Church.
Working and struggling for peace and justice are an integral part of our faith. For this reason, I speak out against the war in Iraq. And for the last eighteen years, I have been speaking out against the atrocities and suffering caused by the School of the Americas (SOA). Eight years ago, while in Rome for a conference on peace and justice, I was invited to speak about the SOA on Vatican Radio. During the interview, I stated that I could not address the injustice of the SOA and remain silent about injustice in my Church. I ended the interview by saying, “There will never be justice in the Catholic Church until women can be ordained.” I remain committed to this belief today.
Having an all male clergy implies that men are worthy to be Catholic priests, but women are not.
According to USA TODAY (Feb. 28, 2008) in the United States alone, nearly 5,000 Catholic priests have sexually abused more than 12,000 children. Many bishops, aware of the abuse, remained silent. These priests and bishops were not excommunicated. Yet the women in our Church who are called by God and are ordained to serve God’s people, and the priests and bishops who support them, are excommunicated.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Therefore, I call on all Catholics, fellow priests, bishops, Pope Benedict XVI and all Church leaders at the Vatican, to speak loudly on this grave injustice of excluding women from the priesthood.
Archbishop Oscar Romero of El Salvador was assassinated because of his defense of the oppressed. He said, “Let those who have a voice, speak out for the voiceless.”
Our loving God has given us a voice. Let us speak clearly and boldly and walk in solidarity as Jesus would, with the women in our Church who are being called by God to the priesthood.
In Peace and Justice,
Rev. Roy Bourgeois, M.M.
PO Box 3330, Columbus, GA 31903
Fr. Roy Bourgeois - End All Torture, No Exceptions
Whether or not Fr. Bourgois feels that the Roman Catholic Church's teachings on the ordination of women are wrong, it is not his to make the decision in that regard.
ReplyDeleteHe is not the authority of the Church... the Holy Father and the Magisterium fill that role. Even in early times, people thought that the ordination of women should be allowed. There were heresies involving the matter, and there are even some ancient wall paintings that depict women acting as priests.
These things were rejected by the early Christians, who were taught by very orthodox Christian teachers. Some "progressive" Catholics think that they have an original idea on this point when, in reality, they are simply regurgitating old nonsense.
In fact, the Montanists, which were a group of heretics dating back as far as the 2nd century, defended their practice of ordaining women as bishops and presbyters. They were condemned back then, and this condemnation will not ever change.
BTW, here's a definition of heresy from the Catechism: "heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth that must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same" (CCC 2089).
In this sense, "progressive" can in some instances be synonymous with "heretical."
Consider 2 John 1:9 (writing to the "elect lady and her children," or the Church), refers to the undesirable "progressive" tendencies of some people: "Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son."
why has so much of the catholic church's energy been spent on condemning? the only ones jesus condemned were the money changers (but money changing is something the church has shown great tolerance for - it can never be said it shunned gold).
ReplyDeletegod is too great to be made into a formula or to be encapsulated into catholic or any other dogma.
a few decades ago catholic theologian rosemary radford ruther came up with the concept of a 'usable past' - shedding much of the dogma that she found to be meaningless.
Truly, the Catholic Church accepts money for use in holy places (churches) and for the creation of sacred vessels, such as ciboria and chalices for the Holy Eucharist. In addition, being the largest and most generous charitable organization in the world, the Catholic Church accepts money for use in aiding the poor and sick. Those are the legitimate methods by which the Church employs its "gold."
ReplyDeleteIf you understood the Bible and salvation history, you would see that God is not being "encapsulated" in dogma; rather, you would recognize that God communicates truths about himself to us through the Bible, and that all (Catholic) dogma is drawn directly from the Bible, as Pope Benedict XVI has written. So, in reality, we as Catholics do not try to contain God, but we provide the world with the truest, clearest and most reliable exposition of His will. Wondering how? It is through the Pope and Magisterium, guided by the Holy Spirit. Evidence for Jesus's conferring of power (of the Holy Spirit) on the Apostles can be found in Matthew 16:15-19 (keys to the kingdom, binding and loosing to Peter), Matthew 18:15-18 (binding and loosing, but this time to all of the Apostles), and Acts 2:1-4 (Pentecost). There are plenty of other examples, if you wish me to provide them.
As for "catholic theologian rosemary radford ruther," consider 1 Timothy 1:3-7, which says, "As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, nor to occupy themselves with myths and endless genealogies which promote speculations rather than the divine training that is in faith; whereas the aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith. Certain persons by swerving from these have wandered away into vain discussion, desiring to be teachers of the law, without understanding either what they are saying or the things about which they make assertions."
One can call themselves a Catholic Theologian if one wishes, but if one does not teach in accord with the Catholic Church, then one is indeed far from a true theologian. (Look up what the definition of "theology" is, and then maybe you would like to comment on that as well.)
First, thank you for taking the time to respond.
ReplyDeleteI have grown up with too many cultures to believe any single one has a monopoly on God. And I don't think He would have wanted it that way. There was a time when I would have been brutally murdered for speaking my mind. No one can tell me that such a time was divinely inspired.
I am amazed that you quote from Timothy: "whereas the aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and sincere faith" and not see that this is precisely what Fr. Bourgois stands for.
Same as Micah 6:6-8
Hebrew translation:
6. With what shall I come before the Lord, bow before the Most High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, with yearling calves?
7. Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, with myriad streams of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8. He has told you, O man, what is good, and what the Lord demands of you; but to do justice, to love loving-kindness, and to walk discreetly with your God.
Christian translation:
6 Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
The time for bludgeoning our fellow humans into submission is past. Whether they be women or people who share a vision that is different from ours. It is a tactic that has failed miserably in the past and has brought so much suffering to the world.
The time has come to celebrate each other's humanity and God's creation. To uplift, rather than beat down.
The situation in which one grows up does not give one any special knowledge about the nature of God or His will; this comes through a study of Scripture, keeping in mind the context in which the text was written (to whom, the circumstances, at what time, etc...). Your having grown up in different cultures has no bearing on the truth. If a diversity of cultures is the "measuring stick" by which we can judge truth, then it may interest you that the Catholic Church is the single most eclectic church in the world, and is on every continent, with members of every nationality, tongue, and background. It has come to the world and has experienced far more in its 2000+ years than you have in your few.
ReplyDeleteOnce again, what an individual or even individuals in a group think does not matter if it is not the truth. You seem to deny the authority of the church, and cite yourself and dissident "catholic" theologians as authority in its place, without much success. I urge you to provide any evidence in favor of women ordination with as much force as the Church has provided against it.
There are also certain Catholic people called "martyrs" (Greek for "witnesses") that were, in fact, brutally murdered for speaking their mind. It has happened all throughout history. They weren't just in a position to be brutally murdered; they were, in fact, killed in such a way.
Anyone who teaches things contrary to God's will are absolutely against "pure heart," "good conscience," and "sincere faith." God IS love, and so, by process of deductive logic, anything contrary to God is contrary to love. Fr. Borgeouis, regardless of his other valiant efforts, is wrong on this point and going against God. You would not submit that someone who was a successful business-person could be right in all regards at all times in business... people are fallible and often mistaken. This is another instance of such a case.
The Catholic Church is not bludgeoning anyone. It is denying people what it cannot give them. Part of the matter that is used in the Sacraments is the actual priest acting in persona Christi, and, just as we cannot consecrate an Oreo cookie as the Eucharist (wrong matter), so also we cannot have a woman consecrate the Eucharist (wrong matter).
Finally, the Catholic Church has the mission to uplift people, to raise them to the highest heights of love and union with God. It is only through loving God as He has told us to through Scripture (and, of course, the Catholic Church, which composed the canon of the Scriptures and whose members wrote the Scriptures) that we can uplift one another as well.
Please, Peacedream, do not quote only one phrase of 1 Timothy and try to change the subject that I am trying to address. If you wish to have a logical, scholarly debate, then answer each of my points, point by point, using facts and logic. You have failed to do so twice now, and I am wondering if there is any answer for these points, or if you are willing to submit that the Scriptures do, in fact, contain a full account of God's will, as represented by the Catholic Church. The Bible is a whole, and must be read as such. Consider these things, and I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.
P.S. I hope I do not seem unkind... I am simply a direct person and am passionate about the truth, which is to be found within the Catholic faith.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe situation in which one grows up does not give one any special knowledge about the nature of God or His will; this comes through a study of Scripture, keeping in mind the context in which the text was written (to whom, the circumstances, at what time, etc...). Your having grown up in different cultures has no bearing on the truth. If a diversity of cultures is the "measuring stick" by which we can judge truth, then it may interest you that the Catholic Church is the single most eclectic church in the world, and is on every continent, with members of every nationality, tongue, and background. It has come to the world and has experienced far more in its 2000+ years than you have in your few.
ReplyDelete--- Spending much of my life trying to understand scripture and to make sense of our understanding of the divine does give me some special knowledge. Enough to know that 19th century scholarship proved the 'sacred' texts have been tampered with on several occasions. Even St. John acknowledges this by cursing anyone who would mess with his text.
Once again, what an individual or even individuals in a group think does not matter if it is not the truth.
--- Trouble arises when the 'truths' claimed by opposing factions contradict. Muslims, Hindus, Jews, even other Christian sects, all claim they are in tune with the 'truth' and deny each other's 'truth.' If 'truth' were a single constant it would logically follow that they would all subordinate themselves to it and form an indivisible unity.
You seem to deny the authority of the church, and cite yourself and dissident "catholic" theologians as authority in its place, without much success. I urge you to provide any evidence in favor of women ordination with as much force as the Church has provided against it.
--- To begin with, I would not dismiss someone as a 'dissident "catholic" theologian' so easily. Some people take their faith very seriously and it becomes a source of great personal anguish when they find they cannot reconcile official dogma with their personal beliefs. At the very least that deserves some recognition and respect (as I am extending to you, though I completely disagree with your position.)
The Church consists of humans and -- without meaning any disrespect to the Holy See -- God has given us all the same faculties with which to understand Him. If I were not a lapsed member of the Greek Othodox Church I would maintain that the Roman Church is renegade, and never deserved its self-proclaimed status of 'primacy' over the other patriarchates.
Here are some arguments in favor of women's ordination with cited references:
The arguments for the Catholic ordination of women[52], include the one based on equality. Some sacramental theologians have argued that ordaining men but not women creates two classes of baptism, contradicting Saint Paul's statement that all are equal in Christ.[53]
Another argument is based on the theological position that there is a fundamental unity between the different levels (deacon, priest, and bishop) of the sacrament of Holy Orders, as taught by the Second Vatican Council.[54] So, if history shows that the deaconesses known to have existed in the Early Church had actually received the sacrament of ordination, then because of the fundamental unity of Holy Orders, women can also be ordained as priests and bishops.[55] (This same argument is sometimes used in reverse, against the historical possibility that deaconesses received sacramental ordination.)[56]
Whatever argument is used in favor of the priestly ordination of women, there is the problem of reconciling this position with Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (or ignoring it, if the arguer so wishes). Based on the statements from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the official point of view is that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, without itself being ex cathedra,[57] authoritatively and bindingly teaches that: (1) the Church cannot ordain women as priests due to divine law; and that (2) this doctrine has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal magisterium. A dissenting view is that, according to section 25 of the Second Council's Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, Lumen Gentium, the "ordinary and universal magisterium" is exercised by "the Pope in union with the bishops". In other words, according to the Congregation, it is an instance of the Pope 'publicising' what he and the other bishops, as the ordinary and universal magisterium' have already consistently taught through the ages.
Since the encyclical Humani Generis, it is well known that the Roman Pontiff can, by his own authority, settle a theological question via a fallible papal teaching that is nonetheless sufficiently authoritative to end all debate on the matter, at least under Church law.[58] This is clearly what has occurred with Ordinatio Sacerdotalis in regard to point (1).[59] (Although, in fact, the position taken by Pius XII in Humani Generis was overturned by Vatican II.)[citation needed] Thus, theological debate on whether women can be ordained as priests is no longer seen by the Church as permitted for Catholics, and the arguments in favor of ordaining women to the priesthood in this section are termed a "dissenting position". However, several noted dogmatic theologians have questioned how this same alleged debate-ending authority can apply to point (2), which is a matter not of faith or morals, but a factual matter relative to teachings promulgated by all the bishops of the Catholic Church over her two thousand year history.[60] These dogmatic theologians find it especially problematic that, concerning this point, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis gives no indication of what historical facts are sufficient to ensure infallibility by the ordinary and universal Magisterium, nor any indication of how those historical facts were verified. Because of these issues it is argued that, if it is indeed possible for the Church to ordain women to the priesthood, this would not contradict the Church's dogma regarding infallible teachings.
Some supporters of women's ordination have asserted that there have been ordained female priests and bishops in antiquity.[61] The official Church position on this is that, although "a few heretical sects in the first centuries, especially Gnostic ones, entrusted the exercise of the priestly ministry to women: this innovation was immediately noted and condemned by the Fathers who considered it as unacceptable in the Church."[62] In response to that position, some supporters of women's ordination take the position that those sects weren't heretical, but, rather, orthodox.[63]
Some arguable evidence that not all ordinations in the Catholic tradition have been those of males exists. For example, the Pope Gelasius I apparently condemned the practice of women officiating at altars; inscriptions near Tropea in Calabria refer to "presbytera," which could be interpreted as a woman priest or as a wife of a male priest.[63] Furthermore, a sarcophagus from Dalmatia is inscribed with the date 425 and records that a grave in the Salona burial-ground was bought from presbytera Flavia Vitalia: selling burial plots was at one time a duty of presbyters.[63] There have been some 15 records so far found of women being ordained in antiquity by Christians; while the Vatican insists those are ordinations by heretical groups, the Women's Ordination Conference contends that those were orthodox Christian groups.[63]
There is also the church of Santa Praxedis, where Theodora Episcopa—Bishop Theodora, with the word for "bishop" in feminine form—appears in an image with two female saints and Mary. That church's pastor alleges that the church was built in honor of Pope Pascal I's mother by her son, who graced her with the title "Episcopa" due to her being the mother of a Pope. However, Theodora wears a coif in the image, suggesting that she is an unmarried woman.[63]
Setting aside these theological considerations, advocates for the ordination of women have pointed to vocations declining in Europe and North America and have made the utilitarian argument that women must be ordained in order to have enough priests to administer the Sacraments in those areas. Supporting this argument, they made public the story of a Czech woman Ludmila Javorová, who, in the 1990s, said that she and four or five other women had been ordained by the late Bishop Felix Maria Davídek in the 1970s, as priests in the underground Catholic Church in Czechoslovakia. Javorová ceased to practice as a priest at some point.
There is at least one organization that calls itself "Roman Catholic" that ordains women at the present time, Roman Catholic Womenpriests;[64] and, several independent Catholic jurisidictions have been ordaining women in the United States since approximately the late 1990s. None of these are recognised as Catholic by the Catholic Church. There are several others calling for the Roman Catholic Church itself to ordain women, such as Circles http://womenpriests.org/circles/[4][5], Brothers and Sisters in Christ,[65] Catholic Women's Ordination,[66] and Corpus,[67] along with others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordination_of_women
“All the faithful, both clerical and lay, should be accorded a lawful freedom of inquiry, freedom of thought and freedom of expression.”
Gaudium et Spes, no 62; Canon Law no 212 § 3.
http://www.womenpriests.org/index.asp
The Arguments from Scripture
http://www.womenpriests.org/scrip_ac.asp
The Arguments from Tradition
http://www.womenpriests.org/trad_ac.asp
The Theological Arguments
http://www.womenpriests.org/theol_ac.asp
The Magisterium
http://www.womenpriests.org/teach_ac.asp
http://www.womenpriests.org/teaching/faq_teac.asp
Top Ten Reasons to Ordain Women…
10.) A priest’s job is to serve the people of God — it’s not about gender (or for that matter, marital status or sexual orientation).
9.) The Second Vatican Council calls for all discrimination to be eliminated.
“Every type of discrimination … based on sex … is to be overcome and eradicated as contrary to God’s intent” — Vatican II, Gaudium et Spes, #29
8.) Women were prominent leaders in Jesus’ ministry. In all four gospels, Mary Magdalene was the first witness to the most important event in Christianity — the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
7.) There is a severe worldwide shortage of priests and an increasing number of women called to ordained ministry.
Fact: Between 1975 and 2005, the worldwide Catholic population increased by 57%, from 709.6 million to 1.12 billion, but the number of priests remained about the same, with an increase of 0.4%. — Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate
6.) The Bible includes many passages depicting women as leaders in early Christianity.
“I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon (diakonos) of the church at Cenchrea." — Romans 16:1
5.) Archaeological discoveries provide evidence that women served as deacons, priests, and bishops in early Christianity.
4.) In the 20th century, women have been ordained to the Roman Catholic priesthood.
Fact: On December 28, 1970, Bishop Felix Davidek ordained Ludmila Javorova a priest in the underground church of Communist Czechoslovakia. In 1991, Cardinal Miloslav Vlk of Prague confirmed that five other women were also ordained as priests during that time.
3.) In 1976, the Pontifical Biblical Commission determined that there is no biblical reason to prohibit women’s ordination.
2.) Because women and men are created in God’s image, both may represent Christ as priests.
“Humankind was created as God’s reflection: in the divine image God created them, female and male, God made them.” — Genesis 1:27
1.) Through baptism in Christ, the distinctions between women and men disappear, so women should also be able to answer God’s call to priestly ministry.
"In Christ there is no Jew or Greek, slave or citizen, male or female. All are one in Christ Jesus.” — Galatians 3:28
http://www.womensordination.org/content/view/241/134/
Fact sheet on Catholic Women's Ordination
63% of U.S. Catholics support ordaining women as priests and 81% support ordaining women as deacons. Gallup Organization survey, September 2005
64% of U.S. Catholics support women’s ordination and 69% support married priests. The Associated Press-Ipsos Poll, April 2005
Only 29% of U.S. Catholics say a male, celibate clergy is “very important.” Gallup Organization survey, September 2005
The 2007 World Day of Prayer for Women’s Ordination was the largest ever, with 22 events in the United States and 28 international events.
There are 16 national organizations from 11 different countries that advocate women’s ordination and eight Women's Ordination Confernce local groups that do so in the U.S.A.
Over sixty women have been ordained as priests, deacons or bishops by the group called Roman Catholic Womenpriests (RCWP), and there are nearly 100 women in the RCWP preparation program.
In Rome and throughout the Mediterranean, archaeologists have found images on frescoes, mosaics, and tombs that depict women serving in roles specifically reserved for deacons, priests, and bishops. Found in catacombs and early Christian churches, they date from 100 to 820 A.D.
Female lay ministers hold the Catholic Church together, and they are doing much of the work that used to be reserved exclusively for priests.
There are 31,000 lay ecclesial ministers in the U.S.A., surpassing the 29,000 diocesan priests in the country. As of 2005, roughly 80 percent of U.S. lay ministers were women. National Catholic Reporter, August 17, 2007
As of 2005, nearly one fourth of the world’s parishes do not have a resident priest pastor. Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate, 2006
There is a severe national priest shortage. Between 1975 and 2007, the number of U.S. Catholic priests declined by 30 percent, from 58,909 to 41,449. In the same time period, the number of U.S. Catholics increased by 32 percent, from 48.7 million to 64.4 million. Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate, 2007
Compiled by Women's Ordination Conference
http://www.womensordination.org/content/view/229/104/
Basic Catholic Rights (per Canon Law)
Canon Law excerpts provided by the Association for the Rights of Catholics in the Church (ARCC) www.arcc-catholic-rights.org
1. All Catholics have the right to express publicly their dissent in regard to decisions made by Church authorities. (C.212:3, C.218)
2. All Catholics have the right to a voice in all decisions that affect them, including the choosing of their leaders. (C.212:3)
3. All Catholics have the right to follow their informed consciences in all matters. (C.748.1)
4. All Catholics have the right to engage in any activity which does not infringe on the rights of others, e.g., they have the right to freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of association. (C.212:2,3, C.215, C.223:1)
5. All Catholics have the right to have their leaders accountable to them. (C.492, C1287.2)
6. All Catholics have the right, while being mindful of Gospel norms, to follow whatever paths will enhance their life in Christ (i.e., their self-realization as unique human beings created by God). They also have the right to guidance that will foster authentic human living both on a personal level and in relation to their communities and the world. (C.213)
7. All Catholics, regardless of race, age, nationality, sex, sexual orientation, state-of-life or social position have the right to receive all the sacraments for which they are adequately prepared. (C.213, C.843:1)
(Above Canon Law excerpts provided by ARCC, Association for the Rights of Catholics in the Church. The word “Catholic” is used for “Roman Catholic” and “Church” for “Roman Catholic Church” throughout.)
http://www.womensordination.org/content/view/240/134/
http://www.womensordination.org/content/view/94/104/
There are also certain Catholic people called "martyrs" (Greek for "witnesses") that were, in fact, brutally murdered for speaking their mind. It has happened all throughout history. They weren't just in a position to be brutally murdered; they were, in fact, killed in such a way.
-- The church also brutally murdered those whose witness disagreed with its own. This, too, is an undeniable fact.
Anyone who teaches things contrary to God's will are absolutely against "pure heart," "good conscience," and "sincere faith." God IS love, and so, by process of deductive logic, anything contrary to God is contrary to love. Fr. Borgeouis, regardless of his other valiant efforts, is wrong on this point and going against God. You would not submit that someone who was a successful business-person could be right in all regards at all times in business... people are fallible and often mistaken. This is another instance of such a case.
--- The weakness in this argument lies in it's original proposition: namely that we know God's will absolutely. I would counter that humanity's understanding of itself and of God is something that keeps growing. The people who crucified Jesus also believed they were doing God's will. We cannot accept that all humanity was in error since creation except for a brief fluttering of the Holy Spirit during the first century, and that the short-lived 'truth' of that period only survives through its Roman apostolate.
The Catholic Church is not bludgeoning anyone.
--- Liberation theology was bludgeoned into conformity with church orthodoxy. At least from the perspective of the very poor in Latin America. The many popular uprisings which continue to this day confirm the injustice that exists, and which the liberation theologians sought to adress. Whose will was the church carrying out?
It is denying people what it cannot give them.
--- Justice? But it can offer salvation without any problem? You believe this?
Part of the matter that is used in the Sacraments is the actual priest acting in persona Christi, and, just as we cannot consecrate an Oreo cookie as the Eucharist (wrong matter), so also we cannot have a woman consecrate the Eucharist (wrong matter).
( see above references )
Finally, the Catholic Church has the mission to uplift people, to raise them to the highest heights of love and union with God. It is only through loving God as He has told us to through Scripture (and, of course, the Catholic Church, which composed the canon of the Scriptures and whose members wrote the Scriptures) that we can uplift one another as well.
--- Uplifting our brothers and sisters is everyone's mission - even that of non-Catholics. It is what one of the Founding Fathers of the U.S. would have deemed the extension of a "natural right." The sacred texts were written by people who, at the time, did not know such a thing as the Catholic Church existed. The Catholic Church, per se, collected the texts which it deemed fit for inclusion into its canon. It includes books which the Orthodox Church, for example, did not include in their version of the Bible.
Please, Peacedream, do not quote only one phrase of 1 Timothy and try to change the subject that I am trying to address. If you wish to have a logical, scholarly debate, then answer each of my points, point by point, using facts and logic. You have failed to do so twice now, and I am wondering if there is any answer for these points, or if you are willing to submit that the Scriptures do, in fact, contain a full account of God's will, as represented by the Catholic Church. The Bible is a whole, and must be read as such. Consider these things, and I look forward to hearing from you in the near future.
P.S. I hope I do not seem unkind... I am simply a direct person and am passionate about the truth, which is to be found within the Catholic faith.
I hope I, too, have not seemed unkind. Peace :-)
19th century "scholarship," meaning what? There has been no convincing argument to that effect, unless one tries to see things in a very, very "creative" way. Cite your sources, support your assertions.
ReplyDeleteSt. John did not verify 19th century tampering of sacred texts in the book of Revelation, chapter 22, verses 18 & 19. He warned against people doing so (who we would call heretics today... a word familiar enough to this blog page by now). Additionally, in 2 Corinthians 11:1-15, Paul warns the people against accepting a different teaching than the one that the Apostles passed on (which would include no woman ordination, if you knew Paul's position on the place of women in the church).
You said, "If 'truth' were a single constant it would logically follow that they would all subordinate themselves to it and form an indivisible unity." Nothing, dear Peacedream, could be further from that same truth. Otherwise, would Paul have warned against people who teach a Gospel contrary to the one that the Apostles preached? or would John have warned against people tampering with his text? Humanity is fallen through Adam and, because of original sin, we do not seek truth but whatever fits with our own perception of what is right. You claim that people struggle when their ideas do not mesh with those of the Church... and this happens very frequently! Simply because one does not agree with the truth (I will fall to my death if I step off of this precipice), it does not lessen to any extent the gravity and surety of that truth.
I respect people and their struggles, and am willing to patiently help them to work through their misgivings, but I am not willing to respect horrible misrepresentations of Jesus's teachings and the will of God and their furthering by those people.
God has given us all the same basic faculties with which to understand him, and reveals himself through nature and revelation; however, by grace, He has given some others, whom He has chosen (as He chose the Apostles and other disciples, like the 70 from Luke 10:1), special knowledge and understanding of His divine will, through the power of the Holy Spirit in order that he may fulfill his words: "And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 16:18-19)
As far as the Greek Orthodox Church and that situation, I am not interested in political debates at the present time. I am discussing the truth of the Scriptures and how their fullness can be seen in the Roman Catholic Church. Historically, and before the schism, Peter was at Rome as the first Pope. Please do not try to refute it, because it is undeniably supported by ancient, early Christian writings, and I do not want to waste time on that point.
As far as the Wikipedia cut and paste, I really wish that you would search out your references the good 'ol-fashioned way, seeing as Wikipedia is hardly a scholarly source in many cases. Still, I will respond...
There can be no two classes of baptism, since, as Paul states, all are "one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28). Since the beginning, in the Old Testament, women were not put in positions of priestly duties, and this was so as an example of what was to come in the New Testament, which has the fullness of truth. Only men held priestly positions... and I can provide very numerous examples of this fact, if you so desire, though I find it quite unnecessary. Then, in the New Testament, the fulfillment of the previous Covenant, God came down in the flesh as a man and chose men as His Apostles, who were to carry on His ministry among the people of God.
The deaconess that your source refers to (Phoebe, from Romans 16:1) was not an ordained minister. Deacons and deaconesses were responsible for lower-level tasks, such as serving tables (not Eucharistic tables, but those of the poor). In fact, deaconesses were mostly responsible for helping women change at the time of their baptism, for reasons of modesty. Deacons as we understand them today, (that is, as ordained men) only came about later in Church history. For further details, please, just ask. Not only is this the case, but, even if women were ordained (which they were NOT), there are three levels of Holy Orders, and these are, in order from least to greatest, the diaconate, presbyteriate, and episcopate. The diaconate only provides those men that are part of it with the ability to baptize and be a witness at a marriage. They cannot bring about transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, even if they are men in the current diaconate. So, even if women were deacons in the modern sense of the word, they would not have the capacity to perform priestly duties. The diaconate is a separate vocation, and there is no "fundamental unity of Holy Orders" that would legitimize ordination of women.
In Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, Pope John Paul II said, quite sternly and clearly I might add, "Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful." Seen in light of Pope Pius XII's Humani Generis, which says, "But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time open to dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the same Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion among theologians.” I'd say that JP II passed a judgment on a matter of doctrine open to debate at the time and settled it, once and for all.
Regarding point 2 of the Wikipedia "cut and paste job," historical facts of the bishops' promulgated teachings on this matter would, in fact, be considered a series of teachings on matters of faith and morals... (I also already dealt with point two from a factual standpoint above... concerning deacons and deaconesses)
Encyclical gymnastics will not solve anything, since it is clear that the Roman Pontiff settled the matter, and I think that the writers of this entry should more carefully consider the structure of their arguments. Additionally, I would like them to cite the "refutation" of Humani Generis by Vatican II, if they would be so kind.
If you are willing to believe that the sects that allowed for ordination of women were "orthodox," then I will pray for you and I can do no more. You would be denying the obvious historicity of the arguments against these sects, and saying that the church fathers (taught first-hand by Apostles in some cases, or by their successors) did not know what the truth was better than yourself, who are looking at it millennia later.
You can find anything when you look hard enough (so far into it that you see what is not actually there), so on many things I cannot give you any evidence that you would accept.
In a utilitarian vein, it does not matter whether or not vocations are declining. Official doctrine cannot be re-written willy-nilly because of circumstances. Would it be acceptable to allow men to "become" women because there was a shortage of women? I do not think so, but, then again, I may be contradicted on this point as well by some.
It is not enough for a bishop, priest, or anyone to go through the motions of an ordination and believe that they have successfully ordained a woman. The entire process is a sham, a fraud, and it is ineffective. Furthermore, it is sinful to even be willing to perform such a false ceremony, because it is disobedient. These people would do well to follow the example of St. Therese of Lisieux, a Doctor of the Church, who longed to be a priest but, since she was a true woman, deferred to the authority of the Church and carried out her vocation as a religious (nun).
As for the "number 1" point in favor of this issue, which says, "Through baptism in Christ, the distinctions between women and men disappear, so women should also be able to answer God’s call to priestly ministry," I would say that it is absurd. Distinctions between men and women are not erased at baptism. The roles of men and women are further ingrained in the baptized, and their sins are washed away as they become children of God, members of His family. Nowhere does it say that baptism dissolves distinctions between men and women.
So, on to Canon Law...
Section 212:1 says, "Conscious of their own responsibility, the Christian faithful are bound to follow with Christian obedience those things which the sacred pastors, inasmuch as they represent Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or establish as rulers of the Church."
Now, although quoted out of context and with added meaning in your post, this is what Canon 212:3 says: "According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons." We do not choose our leaders, such as our priests or bishops... do not grossly misrepresent the Church's policies.
This section refers to the people's civil rights in their communities and countries, respectively.
Canon 492 (your Canon section's point 5) refers to the "THE FINANCE COUNCIL AND THE FINANCE OFFICER," that being the title of the section.
Canon 1287, sections 1 and 2, say, "Both clerical and lay administrators of any ecclesiastical goods whatever which have not been legitimately exempted from the power of governance of the diocesan bishop are bound by their office to present an annual report to the local ordinary who is to present it for examination by the finance council; any contrary custom is reprobated. §2. According to norms to be determined by particular law, administrators are to render an account to the faithful concerning the goods offered by the faithful to the Church." These laws refer to the administration/distribution of goods, and are cited out of context by you.
All of the other points do not support your assertions.
You claim that the Church brutally murdered dissenting people... well, I assume you are pointing to events such as the Spanish Inquisition. Note, first, that it is called the "Spanish" Inquisition, and not the Catholic Inquisition. Residents of Spain, the spanish people, were the perpetrators of this series of atrocities. There was no official, approved church teaching that this should be done. It was the corrupt members of the Catholic Church that perpetrated these things.
You may also bring up the case that popes have called for "holy war" or some such thing, and this is true. If you think this is a novel idea, read the entire Old Testament. It is full of war, as commanded by God. For a better understanding of why this is, go to http://www.hocestcorpusmeum.blogspot.com/ and search for the post on why God is so "grumpy" in the OT. Even still, this was not church teaching (doctrine or dogma).
Humanity has been led by God for the entire extent of salvation history, through the Old and New Testaments. People were always falling away from God because of their weakness, and it was only because God guided them patiently through the wilderness and through their disobedience that there now exists a Church. The Holy Spirit didn't just flutter for a few years; it has "fluttered" since the beginning and continues to "flutter" in the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.
Liberation theology is full of holes and fundamental theologically unsound ideas. That is why it was suppressed, and not because it was for justice. It was based on Communism/Socialism, systems of thought that the Church continues to condemn. I can tell you why later if you wish, but it is another discussion entirely. Stick to the topic.
You tried to put words into my mouth again when you said, "Justice? But it can offer salvation without any problem? You believe this?" The Church is the institution that offers the most true justice and love in the world.
Those that wrote the Scriptures taught others to carry on the faith, and those that carried it on, along with their teachers, held surprisingly orthodox Catholic beliefs on the Eucharist, male ordination, and all of the other Roman Catholic beliefs. A Catholic Council defined the canon of Scripture and, if you do not accept that, then you should reject the entirety of Scripture. Still, in order to accept this, you need an appreciation for Church Authority, which you seem to lack. It may be impossible for you to fully grasp this entire issue after all.
I will end with two quotes from St. Paul's First Letter to Timothy, chapter 1, verses 8-15: "I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children, if she continues in faith and love and holiness, with modesty."
"Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord." (1 Timothy 1:2)
Excuse me, 1 Timothy 2:8-15...
ReplyDeletePeacedream, where did you go? Where are your retorts?
ReplyDeleteI'm still waiting... and getting bored...
ReplyDelete